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design with rondels: sanity check
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 Posted: Sun Feb 26th, 2012 03:29 pm
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Don Burt
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My nephew and his family live in a charming older home in a suburb of Columbus OH with streets that are lined with huge oak trees. His front door has an ungainly porportioned window in it that I thought would be a good place for stained glass. (as if there could be otherwise). We talked about it. He likes the pub-like thing with the wine bottle bottoms. I figured he'd like rondels too. So I drew him sketch that I thought I'd like to make into a window. It had a few rondels, and a painting of a bluejay and acorns in the center. (the role of the blue jay in the spread of the oak in post-glacier north america is thought to be significant). I thought it would be cool. He rejected it (the jay made the window too 'personal') and he showed me instead a panel of tightly fitted rondels and bevels from photographs on an auction site's photos. So I fooled around with rondel designs and it turns out that his window is an uncanny match for 3" and 5" disks arranged tightly packed with 1/2" border lead, and 1/4" interior lead. Bear with me. I'm getting to a point here in a minute. I've worked with kokomo rondels before. They're uneven and inconsistent. I have successfully played it by eye when incorporating them into a piece, adjusting the pattern along the way.  I was thinking I would have to do that all the way along with this design. I'd prefer not to attempt to grind the rondels into shape. So I'd start with the center, trace around each individual rondel and make its lead cutlines along the way, hoping that the 1/2 border would give me enough slack if it went oversize, and if it turns out undersize, easily adjust the size of the inter-rondel border pieces.

I'm hoping that the result won't be too wonky and look unsettling. Or should I attempt to grind the rondels into cooperative roundness? Or is this fraught with peril and I should not attempt to tightly pack the rondels? But how did they do it with the antique pieces? Weren't their rondels uneven shaped too?

Design:

http://www.burtglass.com/burt_berwyn_3x5_RONDELS_2.jpg/

Nephews choice from auction site:

http://www.burtglass.com/burt_berwyn_tylers_choice.jpg

Rejected Jay window sketch from crestfallen designer (I know the sketch is clumsy, but I could have painted a cool bird I think).
http://www.burtglass.com/jay.jpg

 

 

 

 

   



 Posted: Sun Feb 26th, 2012 06:45 pm
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Judy K
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Relatives can be fools with no taste. He has no idea what he is missing, and by such a talented artist. God gives us these people to keep us humble.

Can't help you with your question. I am guessing they fit each one and then did there adjustments with the flat sheet inbetween. A lot of marking and grousing.



 Posted: Sun Feb 26th, 2012 09:39 pm
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Tod
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Don:
Not unexpectedly, I like your idea. However, I think it's too balanced & maybe that's what the nephew doesn't like. How about drawing a jay in flight across the bottom or top of the center & working the roundels around that?

Anyway, as for the rest: Yes. start in the middle, trace (& "key") each roundel as you go, then cut the funky pieces to fit their specific spaces. Not that hard once you get going. I suspect the "ancients" did something similar.
Dont't forget to have fun! - Tod

 

PS: Rather than run the roundels all the way to the edges, consider a cool border - or two!
PPS: Judy is sooooo right!!

Last edited on Sun Feb 26th, 2012 09:41 pm by Tod



 Posted: Mon Feb 27th, 2012 12:07 am
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Steve
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There ARE other manufacturers that make them a bit more regular than Kokomo, in fact, everybody else makes them more uniform than Kokomo. At least that is my experience. I use Blanko alot, and Lamberts, in fact, if you needs some uniform OLD Rondels, I have a box full I can spare, as I recall they are 3" and 4", but I would check to be sure. The old guys made the lead circles of lead to fit the largest one they were using and cement filled the gap on some smaller ones, but in general all were pretty close. Just did a restoration on 3 panels that were in pretty good shape, besides the rock holes.



 Posted: Mon Feb 27th, 2012 03:56 am
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CZL
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When I was an apprentice there were some old roundels at
Bendheim that I got hold of and made a little window for
some friends who owned a restraint in a near by town. It went in
a smell Romanesque opening in there wine cellar. Looked great and
and got me free lunch for the rest of the summer. When I got to NYC
I was involved with a gallery and needed a piece to show. I liked
the roundels and wanted to do some thing along that line. However
I used all that I had in the little window. Another friend of mine
owned a bar. At that time if you had a bar in N.J. you had to destroy
all the old bottles. He had a Shute that went in to the cellar under the bar.
I asked him if I could mine the busted whisky bottles. He said yes, and I did. Made a
Wedding Feast at Cana, out of painted bottle bottoms. As it progressed and
various bottoms exploded in the kiln, I branched out to beer bottles.
I loved the little Rolling Rock Pony bottles the best. Any way when I
got it done almost the Maestro, said quit messin up my kiln.
So I glazed what was left. It looked good except, there were too many
left feet. Never did get to show it. I was late to the opening and
they would not let in the light box. I got mad and gave it to a friend
right then and there. She took it to Brazil. All I have left is a picture
of it some were. O well, those were the good old dayz. CZ 



 Posted: Mon Feb 27th, 2012 11:32 am
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Don Burt
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Thank you all very much for the feedback. Lots to think about. Starting to think about faking the rondels with kiln worked glass (they're expensive these days) or checking if Tyler Burt drinks Rolling Rock.



 Posted: Mon Feb 27th, 2012 03:50 pm
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CZL
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No, I Charles Ziegler Lawrence do not drink Rolling Rock any more!
But I did from 1956 to some time in the early seventies,
during which time I used the bottoms of a few of the many bottles
I emptied to be part of a painted window depicting the Wedding
Feast at Cana, in including a gallon bottle bottom from Gallow wine.
on which I painted the body of the main figure. Also included were, Cutty Shark Scotch,
it was a great green as I remember. And a few other beers, for the flesh,
great light browns. Some of those brands aren't made any more.
I was a very early recycler, as well as a very serious consumer of the product.


C.Z. Lawrence, AMGP, British Society of Master Glass Painters.  



 Posted: Tue Oct 30th, 2012 03:07 am
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Steve
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Since this was posted about the Rondels, what was done?  It has been a while, how about a follow up?

 



 Posted: Tue Oct 30th, 2012 02:09 pm
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CZL
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I love the old European roundels, I even made a coupla windows out of when
you could get them. Bendhiem still has some I think. I have also used wine
bottle bottoms and painted on them, did that window twice. Half blew up in
the kiln but that was why I did to twice. I would think it would better to use
them the way they are. Grinding would be very hard and be counter productive,
as it would look fussy. I am still into found objects and I have found a lot of
empty wine bottles.
CZ



 Posted: Tue Oct 30th, 2012 02:44 pm
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Steve
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I have a box full of Dark Green cylinder bottoms from Blenko, some day.....



 Posted: Tue Nov 6th, 2012 03:54 pm
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Don Burt
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Steve wrote:
Since this was posted about the Rondels, what was done?  It has been a while, how about a follow up?

 


I haven't made any progress. I find myself saying that a lot lately. Thanks for asking.



 Posted: Fri Jun 6th, 2014 04:10 pm
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zig Zeigler
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My Grandfather was Charles Ross Zeigler, from New Castle Pa. And he wouldn't drink a drop (or so he said!) :)



 Posted: Mon Jun 9th, 2014 11:07 pm
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CZL
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My grand father was ZIEGLER LAWRENCE, I don't know how much he drank or if he didn't. He never said much to me, but he had a pretty name. CZ



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