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bbates
Non AGG Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 28th, 2007 |
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Tue Aug 26th, 2008 12:36 pm |
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I'm looking into doing some painting on dalles. Has anyone any experience or advice in this area? Thanx in advance!
-ben
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Krueger
Director
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Posted: Tue Aug 26th, 2008 01:55 pm |
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I just looked in the SGAA Reference and Technical Manual and painting on dalles is not mentioned. But I know it has been done....SGAA has just printed some individual chapters and perhaps this chapter has been updated.
Barbara in Michigan
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Maria
Director
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Tue Aug 26th, 2008 03:20 pm |
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Ben, I sent your question to one of our Senior Advisors, Charlie Lawrence, who is very knowledgeable about both painting and dalle de verre. This is his website: http://www.czlawrence.com.
Here is his answer to your question:
"I don't like painting on dalles but we did
when I was running my end of the dalle shop
at Willet in the 70,s.
They would fire tracing color directly in to the
dalle, in a small slow electric kiln, I think
it was a ceramic kiln. It took hours to run
it up and over night to cool. Don't ask what
temp. they ran it to I don't remember, maybe
around 900 to 1000. They also fired trace on
to flat glass plated it onto the dalle and
poured the epoxy around it as well as the dalle.
This plating was always done on the inside.
it is tricky. You have to keep the apoxy
from running between the dalle and the plate.
I think they used silicone, but you gota keep that
off the sides of the dalle and the flat glass
when you cast it or
the epoxy won't stick.
If you fire directly into the dalle you have
to use a slow muffle kiln. A flash kiln cools
too fast and in most cases the dalles exploded.
Good luck. CZ "
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bbates
Non AGG Member
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Posted: Tue Aug 26th, 2008 04:40 pm |
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Thanks for the advice. I guess i'll stick with sand blasting/ carving on dalles. It makes alot of sense, due to the thickness. Ramp and cool times would have to be controlled very carefully. I might play with it a bit on soem scrap dalles.
I do like the plating idea, though. There are some hexal (sp?) glues that dry clear and have nearly perfect bonds. This might be an avenue to explore...
-ben
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Vic
AGG Member
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Wed Aug 27th, 2008 01:28 am |
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Hxtal is an epoxy. Therefore it dries hard and will not allow for different COE from different glass. Thus the glass plate is likely to break. Hxtal is also very thin like water. So it will not fill irregular surfaces that you may encounter gluing flat glass to dallies.
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indrytem
AGG Member
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Posted: Wed Aug 27th, 2008 11:38 am |
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The biggest challenge is the thickness of the glass, if you are firing the pieces. I've not worked with paint on dalles, but I have been asked to paint on fairly thick to thin bevels. (about 3/4" to a thin 1/8" or 1/16" at the edge)
The glass paint is less likely to take on that gloss of well fired paint on thick glass, unless the temperature goes high enough and may not fire on at all at normal paint fusing temperatures so you'll probably need to experiment with soak times and proper firing temps.
Also- make sure you anneal for a good long time (24 to 48 hrs I'f guess) or...explosions of broken glass.
But if you are not firing the paint, I could ask a studio I work with often what paint they use. They do a good amount of the MTA subway stations in NY and do use paint that stands up to the elements. I think most of the time they paint onto a sand blasted surface with a durable outdoor enamel paint.
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Maria
Director
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Wed Aug 27th, 2008 02:24 pm |
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Thanks for the advice. I guess i'll stick with sand blasting/ carving on dalles. It makes alot of sense, due to the thickness. Ramp and cool times would have to be controlled very carefully. I might play with it a bit on soem scrap dalles.
I do like the plating idea, though. There are some hexal (sp?) glues that dry clear and have nearly perfect bonds. This might be an avenue to explore...
-ben
Response from Charlie Lawrence:
"You are right, if you have access to a sand blaster
use it, it does look more in keeping with the medium.
I have even seen epoxy carefully poured into the sand
blasted areas. When I did dalle work I never did any
thing but cut glass for the black lines.
I just got back from South France and saw some very
good dalle work in a very old church in the hills
above Canne. I was on the run that day and didn't
make a note of the church or town name. Good luck. CZ"
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bbates
Non AGG Member
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Posted: Thu Aug 28th, 2008 12:25 pm |
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Yeah, fortunately, we have a glass studio artists working for us. She doesn't work for us in that function, but her guidance is very integral at times...
We've discussed annealing times, and such. If I did any painting, it would be for dalles as stand alone pieces, not to be used in a larger panel...
Perhaps and combination of line work and blasting would be nice...? And about the paint, I have found a great paint that bonds to sandblasted glass. It's a bonding primer that sherwin williams sells. The stuff gets very hard, like your nail won't scratch through, but a key will... This isn't transparent, but it works well for application that don't require transparency.
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