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dcs-ny
AGG member
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Sat Mar 22nd, 2008 10:15 pm |
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We're looking to cook up our own in the studio, (unhappy with what is commercially out there) but would appreciate other studios input. We've not done it before... but feel it's time.
There may be some favorites out there... and they may all work... it seems as if some folks have their favorite recipe.... curious as to what some studios feel works best for them. We'd like to try some of them out if willing to share. Sort of like a pot-luck dinner. Others might appreciate this too. Thanks much.
note: this posting could also have been in new work, but we put it in repair/restoration
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mmezalick
AGG member
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Posted: Sun Mar 23rd, 2008 10:39 am |
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Ah, one of the all time favorite questions where everyone has their own special mixture. This topic is almost like the "What came first, the chicken or the egg?"
So, with that said, here's my story. Along time ago, in a far off ….. sorry, wrong story,
Really, about 35 years ago, I was taught but my mentor how to make my own putty.
(A side line note: is it called putty, or cement, or weatherproofing? I've heard them all.) Anyway, the mix was very simple, grab a container of some sort, add whiting, some boiled linseed oil, and touch of lamp black and a pinch of red lead. Mix well to the thickness you want and as the French say "Voila!" you got it, along with really sore arms from mixing.
Years later I used a drill with a mixer to help me not have arms like Popeye, but the same mix.
As recently as 10 or so years ago, I was introduced to a putty that was made by a commercial putty company and it was love at first touch. Easy to work with and could be thinned is needed, but alas, that did not work as the company would not sell any more in small quantities, so it was back to the old do it your self mixture.
But then, one shiny morning, I was told about a new and improved putty that would save the world, (at least mine). "Wonder Putty" was its name, made by the Atlas Putty Company and sure enough, it's all that we use.
My arms are back to normal and the shop is a bit cleaner from not knocking over the bags on whiting as often as I did.
I hope this helps in your quest.
Michael
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dcs-ny
AGG member
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Mon Mar 24th, 2008 02:13 am |
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Atlas Wonder Putty is what we finally found awhile ago and do use in the studio now, ... however... always looking to find out more and have some options..... as to whether there really is a better mouse trap out there... who knows
thanks Michael.
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Adam
AGG member
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Posted: Mon Mar 24th, 2008 04:03 am |
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Hello Michael,
I was just at Atlas's site and I was wondering what size of containers work best for you. I notice they sell it in all sizes. What size container would you recommend for a full time studio, cementing windows daily and what would you recommend for a dedicated part time glazier ( cementing 3-4 windows a month or less) I notice that you can buy it in a case with a bunch of smaller individual containers and you can buy it in 1 gallon to five gallon pails. Could someone doing lower production get away with using a 1 gallon pail or do you have to use it up quickly before it dries out, so you would want to purchase small pints or quart sized tubs? I also noticed that you can thin it with Linseed oil, does it matter what kind? Double boiled or regular? And can you just clean up excess with sawdust and whiting? I also noticed that they label the wonder putty as a putty that can be used for bedding glass in window frames, is this the same stuff for cementing lead cames? Thank You for your response in advance. Talk to you soon.
Adam
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mmezalick
AGG member
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Mon Mar 24th, 2008 11:40 am |
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Adam,
Good to hear from you again.
As for the Wonder Putty.
We buy it in the 1 Gallon pails. They come 2 to a box. Our work involves a lot more than just stained glass ( mosaics, interior decoration, wood , marble, etc...) so it is hard to say who much we use during any one time. I usually have 3-4 pails on hand and when we get down to 1-2 we order again. They ship real fast so I never had a problem not having any to work with.
I would still say that for a full time studio the gallon pails are easier to handle and I would also suggest that for the not so full time.
If the container is sealed correctly it will last, well, who knows.
I add boiled linseed oil if I want to make a thiner mix, and clean up is as mush fun as the home made stuff.
I would use it for both, bedding a window and for the stained glass panel. I think its great.
It's a nice colour as well.
Michael
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Adam
AGG member
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Posted: Mon Mar 24th, 2008 04:39 pm |
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Michael,
You can order the wonder putty through CR Laurence as of last Thursday. I talked to atlas this morning and they referred me to somaca. I'm not sure if thats who you ordered from, but they got bought by CRL and now all of CRL s North American locations are carrying the Somaca line.
The CRL product no. 533GLGRY and Its cheaper in Canada.
Talk to you later,
Adam
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Roy
AGG member
| Joined: | Fri Mar 21st, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 21 |
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Offline
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Mon Mar 24th, 2008 06:36 pm |
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Adam,
You stated in one of your posts
"I also noticed that you can thin it with linseed oil"
A cautionary note, when I was an apprentice I was helping out cementing with the owner/salesman who didn't normally get his hands dirty, as he didn't have anything to do that day the only thing he thought he could attempt was cementing.
After a little while he was finding it hard work, he said the cement was too thick, he suggested making the cement thinner with linseed oil, he added some and it was much easier, this inspired him to add more and more, he said this way we can work quicker and we cemented many windows that day.
The businessman owner thought he had achieve a great advance in technique, not to say profit, all it needed was his intellect to solve the problem.
Next day the glass in all the leaded windows was found to be covered with a sticky mess, all the thinned cement had leached out of the leads overnight.
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Adam
AGG member
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Posted: Mon Mar 24th, 2008 09:56 pm |
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Roy,
I was surprised by thinning with linseed oil. Normally when I thin something I use terps because it dries quickly, but I noticed their website specified not using solvents. Thats why I asked if it was okay to use double boiled for thinning or if anyone that uses this type of putty has experience thinning it or if they feel it needs thinned. I've been using Geoffrey Wallace's formulae for my personal projects. And so far that seems to work quite well. I was able to track down a gallon of wunder putty and I think I might give it a try to see what its like.You are right though. You do have to be careful with the amount of linseed oil. Thanks. Talk to you later.
Adam
Last edited on Tue Mar 25th, 2008 12:39 am by Adam
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Vic
Director
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Mon Mar 24th, 2008 11:51 pm |
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Putty Formula:
Mix Whiting, 50%boiled linseed oil, 50% raw linseed oil. Mix till it gets to be like peanut butter
Putty is made up of two basic ingredients. Whiting and linseed oil. Then there are various things people add to the basic mix. I have broken this stuff into four categories.
1- Powders: whiting, Plaster of Paris, dental plaster, field plaster, Portland cement.
2- Liquids: raw linseed oil, boiled linseed oil.
3- Thinners: mineral spirits, paint thinner, kerosene, white spirits, gasoline, turpentine
4- Driers: white lead, red lead, Japan drier.
The powders add bulk (makes putty thick). Whiting should be used alone. Plaster absorbs moisture (moisture is the number 1 killer of building materials). Portland cement is so strong it attaches itself to the glass making restoration very hard. Plaster and Portland cement NOT good.
Liquids are for turning the whiting into the putty mix. Should use 50% raw and 50% boiled linseed oil.
Thinners are for making the putty mix more liquid for brush putty work as opposed to pushing the putty with your fingers. These thinners evaporate quickly so that the putty sets up fast. This can be a problem as it shortens the life of the putty.
Driers are used to speed up the setting time of the putty. White and red lead are now illegal in the US. These things also shorten the life of the putty.
The last thing to add is color, if wanted.
The purpose of the putty is to waterproof windows. For putty to work well, it needs to stay elastic for as long as possible. That's why thinners and driers are not so good.
The way I putty widows is the following:
1- The putty is the thickness of peanut butter.
2- I use my fingers to push the putty under the came
3- I putty to side that was up when built first.
4- Putty and then pick first side with a sharpen
dowel
5- Rub down came with burlap to remove putty stuck
tp the surface of the came
6- Flip window
7- Putty, pick then clean with whiting
8- flip window repick putty clean with whiting
9- Let window sit for a day, then repick and clean with whiting if necessary.
I NEVER let a freshly puttied window sit overnight without cleaning.
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Roy
AGG member
| Joined: | Fri Mar 21st, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 21 |
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Posted: Tue Mar 25th, 2008 12:19 am |
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I noticed you use a sharpend dowell for picking off.
I don't do much puttying these days but I made a couple of panels recently and found a plastic golfing Tee was excellent for picking off.
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mmezalick
AGG member
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Tue Mar 25th, 2008 12:28 am |
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Roy,
Glad to have you on the site.
I use a plastic golf tee as well but with a twist.
I take an old ball point pen casing. Take out the inside stuff and insert the tee. Sometimes a bit of shaving the tee down to fit thru the hole, add a bit of epoxy and put the pen back together. It's comfortable to hold and cleans up easy.
Michael
Last edited on Tue Mar 25th, 2008 12:29 am by mmezalick
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Vic
Director
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Posted: Tue Mar 25th, 2008 12:35 am |
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3' costs about 50 cents, cut it in 4-5 pieces and sharpen in an electric pencil sharpener
easy-peezie
Last edited on Tue Mar 25th, 2008 12:36 am by Vic
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Mary Clerkin Higgins
Director
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Tue Mar 25th, 2008 01:16 am |
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| Chopsticks also work really well for cutting back. Mary
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dcs-ny
AGG member
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Posted: Tue Mar 25th, 2008 02:47 am |
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thank you Vic.. sometimes... if (when) we're out of Wonder-putty.. we may just have to make some ourselves.. so it is great to have a recipe that works!
Doris
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Adam
AGG member
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Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 03:26 am |
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I've started using my wonder putty and I find its very nice. Just a couple questions. Can you tint it darker with anything without degrading the quality? Vic, I remember you showed at an agg conference that you sometimes warm your putty in a croc pot. Am I remembering that right? Is that the wonder putty that you warm or do you only use your own formula? Does the warming make the wonder putty brushable? Thanks for your help.
Adam
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Vic
Director
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Posted: Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 12:40 pm |
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Adam wrote: I've started using my wonder putty and I find its very nice. Just a couple questions. Can you tint it darker with anything without degrading the quality? Vic, I remember you showed at an agg conference that you sometimes warm your putty in a croc pot. Am I remembering that right? Is that the wonder putty that you warm or do you only use your own formula? Does the warming make the wonder putty brushable? Thanks for your help.
Adam
You should be able to use the colorant that they had to cement (like in sidewalks). I only use my own, home made, putty.
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Roberto
AGG member
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Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 12:51 pm |
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Adam, you can use Lampblack to tint the putty. It's made by Rainbow and it comes in a small box. You should be able to find it in hardware stores. The stuff is so fine that you need very little.
Good luck,
Roberto
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Ardbeg
AGG member
| Joined: | Tue Oct 24th, 2006 |
| Location: | United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 67 |
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Posted: Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 02:41 pm |
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Can you guys not get a tube of "Zebo" or "Zebrite" over there? It looks like a tube of toothpase and is yellow and black on the cover. It is sold here in old fashioned hardware stores to polish lead fireplaces and grates.
The lampblack power can be really puffy, and blows everywhere, staining everything in contact. The zebo also stains, but at least it doesn't puff.
At Art School we also used cheap black oil paint.
Linda
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Roberto
AGG member
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Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 02:58 pm |
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Linda,
I have never used "zebo" but I have used stove polish, made by Williams in Worcester, Massachusetts. Interesting it also comes in a yellow and black tube and it is sold in hardware stores.
Roberto
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Ardbeg
AGG member
| Joined: | Tue Oct 24th, 2006 |
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| Posts: | 67 |
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Posted: Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 04:40 pm |
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If it's oily, runny, and black, then it's probably the same thing, although they do vary. Zebo polishes up nicely, and is easy to remove from the glass, but some of the other brands of grate polish are sticky, and really difficult to remove from the glass. I've also tried some which are more like black shoe polish, but they too leave a hard, crusty residue.
Maybe I should send some over for the auction!
Linda
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