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Lisa Di Campli
AGG member
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Wed May 14th, 2008 10:02 pm |
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Hello all, we're working on the restoration of a lamp that has a silver stain technique that we haven't yet been able to figure out. A photo is attached.
The lamp, with 2 broken sections, was delivered to the studio here in the Netherlands with the instructions that the technique was an alcohol solution (methanol/ethanol) dripped from a pipette onto silver stain (prepared with water) that had been spread onto the glass. Well, that ain't it. Alcohol/water mixing causes "legs" to form, and whatever is dripped onto whatever in this technique is miscible. It also doesn't seem to be alcohol dripped onto silver stain prepared with alcohol as this doesn't give the tree-trunk ring effect that we see.
The silver stain color seems to be a type of silver stain called "ook for duran" that is used for borosilicate glass.
We've tried various turpentine / oil combinations and frankly, many hours and much greasiness later, we're no closer.
Any thoughts or suggestions would be much appreciated.
Attached Image (viewed 117 times):
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mmezalick
AGG member
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Posted: Thu May 15th, 2008 12:19 am |
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Lisa,
I don't know it this makes any sense or not , and I really don't have a clue,
But
The results look like what soap would do to an oil in water.
Much like a faux fininsh in painting.
So, here's my suggestion,
Mix up the silver stain with oil, spray the glass with water before you put on the stain and then drip on the soap.
Again, I have no idea if that is even on the same planet, let alone in the neighborhood, but strangers things have been tried.
Michael
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Mary Clerkin Higgins
Director
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Thu May 15th, 2008 02:42 am |
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| The stain looks something like the spritzing technique, where a base layer of paint is applied, allowed to dry and then spritzed with droplets of water. Once the droplets dry the paint is rubbed away, leaving the pattern of the droplets. Since the photo shows clear rings of the droplets it's possible it was done that way, or that the spritzing was done using more stain (not just water) and perhaps stain with gum in it (stain is often applied with no gum), to make the droplets more tenacious than the base layer of stain and to leave more defined rings. Mary
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glasman
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Posted: Thu May 15th, 2008 10:28 pm |
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Try spritzing with vinegar. Maybe add some extra gum arabic to the stain.
Good luck,
John
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mmezalick
AGG member
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Fri May 16th, 2008 08:47 am |
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Lisa,
I've been thinking about this a bit and I would try the following.
I would mix the stain with either Lavender oil or Clove oil ( I can't remember which) and using a fan brush, push out to make the larger "rings".
When the oil settles, I would drop water or a detergent to create the smaller "rings".
The oil will level out and you should not have any clear spot on the finished product.
That's all, that I have.
Please let is know, we are all sitting on the edges of our seats. At least I am.
Michael
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Lisa Di Campli
AGG member
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Posted: Fri May 16th, 2008 03:42 pm |
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| Thanks all, the discovery saga will be continued next week and I'll keep you posted on how it's going.
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Roy
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Sat May 17th, 2008 01:42 pm |
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I went to my workshop this morning and found the answer.
Apply the stain mixed with water. While it's still wet drop a one spot of white vinegar every 2" and you will be amazed at the result, it is exactly like your example.
I used the end of a brush to drop the vinegar but a pipette would give more control.
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Ardbeg
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Posted: Sat May 17th, 2008 11:18 pm |
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Well,
I'd just ike to thank you all for that small lesson in textured effects. I've got a window in my studio that I've been working on for ages, a cherry blossom tree (ish) and I've had it aside for ever so long because I couldn't figure out how to get the effect I wanted. I wasn't even sure what it was that I wanted, I just knew I hadn't stumbled upon it yet.
Anyway, the answer came loud and clear in the mixing of mediums:
oil and water, water and vinegar etc etc.
So, I've started to paint it, first with bitumen (acid resist) and water - fantastic effect, then clove bud oil and water to follow, then, as a desert... Oster's wonderful stains with water and vinegar.
I can't wait - Yum yum.
Thanks everyone for the inspiration.
Linda
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Tod
AGG member
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Sun May 18th, 2008 02:50 pm |
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Well, Linda, please be sure to let us know (and see) how it went when you're done.
Thanks, Tod
PS: Yes, this thread has been very helpful and inspirational.
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Lisa Di Campli
AGG member
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Posted: Sat May 31st, 2008 08:49 am |
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Thanks to all who responded, lots of great suggestions.
And so, the progress report! It quickly became clear that although the silver stain "ook voor duran" has a lovely appropriate color, it also has so much binding material that this likely interferes with any further handling to achieve the effect. Now I'm using one of the Reusche ambers, that seems to open much better.
The soap effect was astonishing, really great. Nothing like the lamp effect but wonderful.
Dick Millard suggested isopropyl alcohol but that is not so readily available here. I went to the pharmacy, and they had something called "alcohol" which she assured me was isopropyl but the small print said "ketonized alcohol". She said that was so people don't accidentally drink it. Logical, eh? The ketonized alcohol didn't work great but I'll be in the states in a few weeks and can pick up some of the real stuff.
White vinegar touched on seems to be on the track but the stain doesn't open up quite enough and once fired, wasn't dark enough. Will be playing with firing temperature this week and also oils.
Getting closer!
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Lisa Di Campli
AGG member
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Sat May 31st, 2008 08:49 am |
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Last edited on Sat May 31st, 2008 08:50 am by Lisa Di Campli
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Vic
Director
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Posted: Sat May 31st, 2008 04:00 pm |
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Have you thought about making a silkscreen from the existing pieces and screening the silver stain. While this will be a more uniform look it may work for this project.
Vic
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Adam
AGG member
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Sun Jun 1st, 2008 05:44 am |
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Can silver stain be silk screened??? What would the procedure be? Has this actually been done? Wouldn't the screen be shot after one use? How would you clean it thoroughly? What stain do you use? Do you mix it with sqeegee oil like paint? I know that some of the stains I've used can be quite granular. I can't imagine screening them and then the fact of how corrosive the stain can be. I can't see screen holding up very long.
Adam
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gwsg
AGG member
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Posted: Sun Jun 1st, 2008 06:17 am |
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Adam, I have screened stain on a number of occasions using various types of stains. I have mixed it with both water and squeegee oil on different occasions and mixed weak stains with strong stains depending on the density of colour desired. I have used timber framed screens so corrosion was no problem and neither was cleaning.
Geoff
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Roy
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Sun Jun 1st, 2008 09:34 am |
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| I have also screened stain, it depends to some extent upon the thickness of the screen and the ratio of medium to stain, you can use a lot of stain with this method. It's probably only useful if you have many repeated pieces to produce.
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Ardbeg
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Posted: Sat Sep 6th, 2008 03:45 pm |
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Tod wrote: Well, Linda, please be sure to let us know (and see) how it went when you're done.
Thanks, Tod
PS: Yes, this thread has been very helpful and inspirational.
Dear all,
part of the blossom window - so far - before leading.... it's not due to be installed until November
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Ardbeg
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Sat Sep 6th, 2008 03:47 pm |
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...and another one, in raking light, showing the heavy texture of the etched glass!
Linda
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Mary Clerkin Higgins
Director
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Posted: Sun Sep 7th, 2008 05:40 pm |
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Hi Linda,
It looks like it's going to be fantastic. Please post a picture of the finished window!
Best, Mary
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Maria
Director
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Sun Sep 7th, 2008 06:07 pm |
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Amazing Linda! Absolutely beautiful stuff. You must keep a bottle of Ardbeg nearby. Can't wait to see it completed.
Cheers,
Roberto
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Kristi Lambrecht
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Posted: Wed Sep 10th, 2008 08:56 pm |
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Hi Lisa,
Just a thought if you are using silver stain mixed with vinegar before it dried try a sprinkle if salt when it dries brush it off and see what happens. This will be considered a science experiment! Hope this is successful.
Kristi
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