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bbates
Non AGG Members
| Joined: | Fri Sep 28th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 46 |
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Offline
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Tue May 20th, 2008 06:35 pm |
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We have been having much greif lately at our shop. Various workers believe that putty (what we call grout) can be made in vast number of ways and still be good. I want to see what the standards are... How do you mix your putty?
This is our recipe, Please! post yours.
1 Part linseed oil
1 Part turpentine
2 parts 1012 glazing compound
1 part whiting
We add more whiting to thicken and more linseed oil to thin.
Now, this is our "written" recipe. We just realized that the worker that has been mixing it for years does it whilly-nilly, off the cuff, and the consistensy is just not there. And he argues with us every time we try to address this, of course the new owners, just shrug it all off. So the few of us that actually care our on our own here. He uses like a gallon of the 1012 gray glazing compound, but then just like a cup of linseed oil and turpentine, and no whiting. then when it gets thick in the bucket, he justs adds more turpentine...
Please help us....
-ben
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Adam
AGG member
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Posted: Wed May 21st, 2008 01:03 am |
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Last time I checked you can fire some one for not obeying orders. But for the sake of being a nice guy, There is a topic in Repair and restoration labeled putty I believe Victor Rothman offered his recipe and others waxed poetically about the virtues of Atlas Wonder Putty( I've had the oppurtunity to try it and it is a very nice putty) . Geoffrey Wallace from Australia also has a formulae that he is often willing to share, If you look in members, his username is gwsg. Hope that helps,
Adam
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Vic
Director
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Wed May 21st, 2008 01:12 am |
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First DAP says on the can "not for stained glass". I don't know why, but if the company says not for use, I'll take their word for it.
Next linseed oil and whiting is putty. So your guy is just adding putty to putty.
Here is the link to the last putty talk
http://www.americanglassguild.com/forum6/359.html
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bbates
Non AGG Members
| Joined: | Fri Sep 28th, 2007 |
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| Posts: | 46 |
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Posted: Wed May 21st, 2008 04:37 pm |
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thank you for the redirect, it was helpful. I would still be curious as to know if of all the various putties used. We call it grout...
btw, I called DAP about the usage and the warning on the back of the can. They say do not use for stained/leaded glass, but they mean as a glazing compound... as in "into the frame" I discussed with person from dap as to our usage and pros and cons. She was with me about being very stingy with the thinner, it would cause the grout (putty) to dry too quickly, as is stated in the previous "putty" post... She didn't see any problem using it for this method. Their concerned was with the adhesion to the frame and glass and lead, but with grouting, the putty is shoved into the lead, and pinched into place.
I am going to take some time to mix the whiting and linseed oil stuff in the near future. What is the difference between whiting a plaster of paris and what are the pros and cons? We only use the whiting to brush on after the grouting and if needed to thicken up the grout.
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artfem
Administrator
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Wed Jun 4th, 2008 08:12 pm |
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Ben
I do not know why there is the desire in our field to mix our own putty. There are a number of reasons not to, the first being what you described above, there is often little or no consistency to the materials used or how it is mixed together.
Secondly, it is very difficult to be consistent when mixing small amounts of anything. The larger the batch, the less imapct a small mistake has on the ratio of materials being mixed. Granted, mixing putty isn't brain surgery, usually nobody dies. But why not use a commercial product with more quality controls?
Thirdly, in most putty/cement mixes, it is important to have a variety of sizes in the particulate (whiting) that is suspended in the binder (organic oil). Unless a small studio goes to great lengths, it will have no idea of the sizes or ratio of the particulate. Large putty companies can do this. Again, a better mix and more consistency.
Some things to know about putty are: the organic oil (linseed oil) does not "dry" it polymerizes. Upon exposure to the atmosphere, the linseed oil reacts with oxygen and the fatty acid chains link with each other to form an extremely large cross-linked polymer. The best way to keep your putty fresh in the can, is to level out the surface a pour a half inch or so of water on the top of the putty. It seals the linseed oil from contact with the atmosphere and easily pours off when you need to use the putty. Soy and fish oils polymerize more slowly then boiled linseed oil and are thereby, I think, better suited for our purposes.
You speak about adhesion. I think this is also important for putty. I do not subscribe to the school that believes putty holds a window together. However, a degree of adhesion is needed between the putty and the glass and the lead, or leaks may develop when the panel flexes.
In my opinion, you are alwys better off using a commercially manufactured, organic oil putty that has no driers or plaster of paris. Plaster iof paris absorbs water is a very reactive material. I would not use it in any putty. I think one of the best on the market is Wonder Putty made by Atlas Putty of Tinley Park, IL. It is also available from Somaca Glazing supplies.
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Adam
AGG member
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Posted: Thu Jun 5th, 2008 02:46 am |
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Somaca is no more. They were bought out by CRLawrence.
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