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mmezalick
AGG member
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Fri Feb 1st, 2008 10:09 pm |
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Just a few pictures to share with the group.
I had the opportunity to remove two windows today, on a Tiffany and the other a LaFarge. They were from a residential setting and may be some of the undocumented widows from these two studios. Here's a picture of both.
Michael
Attached Image (viewed 97 times):
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mmezalick
AGG member
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Posted: Fri Feb 1st, 2008 10:09 pm |
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| The LaFarge again Attached Image (viewed 91 times):
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mmezalick
AGG member
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Fri Feb 1st, 2008 10:10 pm |
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| The Tiffany Attached Image (viewed 92 times):
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glasman
Director
| Joined: | Mon Jan 7th, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 59 |
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Offline
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Posted: Sat Feb 2nd, 2008 03:02 am |
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Michael,
Beautiful. Don't get those border pieces mixed up.
John
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mmezalick
AGG member
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Sat Feb 2nd, 2008 09:44 am |
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Unfortunately, I will not be "working" on these windows . They were purchased by an antique dealer and I will be crating them on Monday and shipping them off. No repairs , not even a cleaning. But I will be making a rubbing and matching glass from my samples, for my files.
Michael
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jhitch
AGG member
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Posted: Sat Feb 2nd, 2008 06:09 pm |
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Michael,
Those photo's aren't attached to the email. Where do we go to view these photo's?
Thanks,
Jeff
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Adam
AGG member
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Sat Feb 2nd, 2008 10:42 pm |
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Michael,
Nice windows.Will you be matching glass to old glass that you already have or will you be trying to match with a comparable , easily obtained, contemporary glass ? I would love to hear what new glass matches up well with the Tiffany and Lafarge glass.
Adam Frazee
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Adam
AGG member
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Posted: Sat Feb 2nd, 2008 10:44 pm |
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Michael,
I forgot to ask, Is the border on the LaFarge Leaded, foiled, or poured lead like a belcher? Or Leaded and then sweat soldered over the entire lead?
Thanks
Adam
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Vic
Director
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Sun Feb 3rd, 2008 01:25 am |
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mmezalick wrote: Just a few pictures to share with the group.
I had the opportunity to remove two windows today, on a Tiffany and the other a LaFarge. They were from a residential setting and may be some of the undocumented widows from these two studios. Here's a picture of both.
Michael
I hate to be a wet blanket here, but. If the LaFarge is "undocumented" who is making the claim that it's real? Overall the layout suggests LaFarge's "Peonies in the Wind with Kakemono Borders". But the flow of the design seems a bit heavy and clunky (is this a word). In LaFarge's windows and paintings the foliage and flowers have a gentle, delicate flow. The leads in your window look a bit heavy/wide too me also. But I could be wrong.
Are there any plates? Are the photos the front or back. It looks like the rebars are on the otherside.
Vic
Last edited on Sun Feb 3rd, 2008 01:36 am by Vic
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mmezalick
AGG member
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Posted: Sun Feb 3rd, 2008 01:36 am |
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All I have is what the antique dealer said. I an no expert on LaFarge windows so you may be right in oyur assumption that it was done by someone else.
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #222222"Maybe I change the topic title to "Tiffany, maybe and LaFarge, another maybe".
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #222222"Michael
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mmezalick
AGG member
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Sun Feb 3rd, 2008 01:37 am |
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Jeff,
I'm not sure I understand your question/ problem. Can you reword it and maybe I can give a better answer.
Michael
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mmezalick
AGG member
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Posted: Sun Feb 3rd, 2008 01:38 am |
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Adam,
No repair work on these panels. Put them as is in the create and off they go.
So Sad
Michael
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mmezalick
AGG member
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Sun Feb 3rd, 2008 01:39 am |
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| I'll let you know tomorrow about the boarders.
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Vic
Director
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Posted: Sun Feb 3rd, 2008 01:40 am |
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Is there a date attributed to the window? How are the tie wires done. Often La Farge's wires had about 1/2 twist and a drop of solder.
Vic
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mmezalick
AGG member
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Sun Feb 3rd, 2008 01:56 am |
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I can give a better report tomorrow. Please let me know if there are other items I should look for.
Michael
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mmezalick
AGG member
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Posted: Sun Feb 3rd, 2008 07:16 pm |
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Here are a few answers to the questions about the window I posted the other day.
Adam asked:
Is the border on the LaFarge Leaded, foiled, or poured lead like a belcher? Or Leaded and then sweat soldered over the entire lead?
The glass in the border appears to be a mix of both. The larger pieces are leaded and the medium are wrapped in what appears to be a U, maybe the H with one side of the flanges cut off. The remaining is filled in with solder.
Vic comments:
The leads in your window look a bit heavy/wide too.
The majority ( 90%) of the lead has a face measurement of .11 +-.
I do not know if that is a bit heavy for a LaFarge or not.
And it is true that the design does not have that “flow” as the "Peonies in the Wind with Kakemono Borders”.
Could it be that the antique dealer paid more than he should have? Good luck to the seller.
The bars are on what would be the backside, if the side that has the rough jewels protruding is called the front side.
The window panel was installed into the “out” side of a wooden sash
The wooden sash, because of the addition of an extra piece of lumber at the top indicates to me, that possibly it was not made for this opening, or that the windows was made small and the frame was added to.
I can’t say but I guess either could explain the added lumber, or there may be more reasons,
There are no plates on this window
The new picture is from the “front” side of the window as is the detailed shot.
The wires are twisted twice and bent over to lay on the bar.
No drop of solder.
As for the date, this is what I have.
The present owners bought the house at auction about 27 years ago (1980) from the previous owner Mrs. George Patton, the wife of Maj. Gen. George S. Patton, son of the infamous General George Patton.
It is my understanding, (it’s really a guess) that they, The Patton’s, bought the house from the Sisters of Notre Dame who outgrew the house because of their numbers.
By that I mean I don't know if there were any other owners between the time the Sister sold the house and the time the Pattons bought the property.
I do know it was a convent.
I do have the religious windows also that were there when it was a convent
The Sisters established the Notre Dame Academy, Staten Island, in 1903.
I think the “Tiffany” window was original to the house and the “so called LaFarge", was added later. It’s just my guess.
Michael
Attached Image (viewed 37 times):
 Last edited on Sun Feb 3rd, 2008 07:22 pm by mmezalick
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mmezalick
AGG member
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Sun Feb 3rd, 2008 07:17 pm |
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A Detailed shot
The window is 27.5 " x 49.5"
Attached Image (viewed 38 times):
 Last edited on Sun Feb 3rd, 2008 07:18 pm by mmezalick
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Vic
Director
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Posted: Sun Feb 3rd, 2008 08:57 pm |
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mmezalick wrote:
Here are a few answers to the questions about the window I posted the other day.
Adam asked:
Is the border on the LaFarge Leaded, foiled, or poured lead like a belcher? Or Leaded and then sweat soldered over the entire lead?
The glass in the border appears to be a mix of both. The larger pieces are leaded and the medium are wrapped in what appears to be a U, maybe the H with one side of the flanges cut off. The remaining is filled in with solder.
Vic comments:
The leads in your window look a bit heavy/wide too.
The majority ( 90%) of the lead has a face measurement of .11 +-.
I do not know if that is a bit heavy for a LaFarge or not.
And it is true that the design does not have that “flow” as the "Peonies in the Wind with Kakemono Borders”.
Could it be that the antique dealer paid more than he should have? Good luck to the seller.
The bars are on what would be the backside, if the side that has the rough jewels protruding is called the front side.
The window panel was installed into the “out” side of a wooden sash
The wooden sash, because of the addition of an extra piece of lumber at the top indicates to me, that possibly it was not made for this opening, or that the windows was made small and the frame was added to.
I can’t say but I guess either could explain the added lumber, or there may be more reasons,
There are no plates on this window
The new picture is from the “front” side of the window as is the detailed shot.
The wires are twisted twice and bent over to lay on the bar.
No drop of solder.
As for the date, this is what I have.
The present owners bought the house at auction about 27 years ago (1980) from the previous owner Mrs. George Patton, the wife of Maj. Gen. George S. Patton, son of the infamous General George Patton.
It is my understanding, (it’s really a guess) that they, The Patton’s, bought the house from the Sisters of Notre Dame who outgrew the house because of their numbers.
By that I mean I don't know if there were any other owners between the time the Sister sold the house and the time the Pattons bought the property.
I do know it was a convent.
I do have the religious windows also that were there when it was a convent
The Sisters established the Notre Dame Academy, Staten Island, in 1903.
I think the “Tiffany” window was original to the house and the “so called LaFarge", was added later. It’s just my guess.
Michael
Good luck to the dealer. La farge died in 1910.
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mmezalick
AGG member
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Sun Feb 3rd, 2008 09:25 pm |
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The house was built much earlier than when the Sister had it, but I don't know how much earlier.
michael
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Krueger
Director
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Posted: Sun Feb 3rd, 2008 09:47 pm |
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Michael, you could send the "LaFarge" image to Jim Yarnall and see what he thinks. yarnallj@salve.edu
Barbara in MIchigan
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